I'm old enough to be your daddy and almost old enough to be your grandfather. I stopped being interested in Birthdays years ago, right after I discovered there was no way to stop those reoccuring pesky-things from coming around.
Old Goat
JoinedPosts by Old Goat
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2010 got scared today! OLD AGE! Born in 1972 realized I may only live to 2050!
by Witness 007 inif i live to 80 in 2050 thats in only 40 years and if i'm lucky.....not long.
believing that a "god" will whisk me away to heaven would be very comforting....but i just can't do it.
ever think about dying of old age?.
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Old Goat
1972 ... old? I have ties that are older than you are. You aren't old yet ... Growing old isn't for the weak and faint hearted. Look'em in the eye and strke an attitude.
No more of this young wippersnapper mambipambiism. Stand up straight; hike up your pants (Make sure they're zipped. Nothing ruins a good attitude pose more than unzipped pants); spit and dare old age to come!
They don't call me Old Goat for muttin' bub.
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1914.....1919......Where did these dates come from?!?
by losthusband inwhilst trying to discuss the history of jwism with my family, the 1914 and 1919 dates were brought up!.
is there a definitive topic/article which discusses these dates?.
i have heard talk of pyramids, and no scriptural basis at all.
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Old Goat
The book Nelson Barbour: The Millennium's Forgotten Prophet traces the origin of the Watchtower gentile times doctrine and the date 1914 back to their origins. The 2520 year concept derives from the work of an American clergyman whose book was published in 1808. From him it went to John Aquila Brown. Isaac Wellcome connects Barbour to Brown.
The 1914 date itself went to Barbour from E. B. Elliot. Barbour adopted Elliott's 1914 calculation after first believing that Gentile Times ended in 1878. Neither date was original with Barbour. Barbour and Russell started the count of the 2520 years from 606 BC. The book points out that Samuel Davies Baldwin pointed to 607 BCE as the start point back in 1867. One of William Miller's critics also pointed to 1914.
The 1919 date was first found significant in 1930 with Rutherford's book Light, a commentary on Revelation. It is derived from his tendency to turn his life into prophetic fulfilments.
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1874 Was the "Parousia" (Second Coming) until 1943- Informational Video
by OnTheWayOut inzion's watch tower and herald of christ's presence established in 1879, included "christ's presence" in the title because they thought christ was present since 1874. notice this two-part informational video that uses wt literature to reveal wt teachings.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cavyycjiqgq&feature=channel_page.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaxpmqxvdge&feature=channel.
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Old Goat
I'm old enough to remember studying the 1940's books The Kingdom is at Hand and The Truth Shall Make You Free, so this isn't news to me. It didn't matter to most when the change was made. It was seen as "advancing light." We sang about it. It's been so long that I no longer remember the name of the song, but it contained the words "advancing light." Every change was seen that way.
Plainly the Watchtowerites distort their own history, most often by what they leave out than by what they say. They have a view of themselves that depends on forwarding themselves as God's particular servants. To keep that view, they have to distort their history.
You may like to read the new book I've mentioned here before, Nelson Barbour: The Millennium's Forgotten Prophet. He developed the 1874 date. The story behind that is told in detail in the book. It's a well documented history without either a pro witness or anti witness agenda. It's a pleasure to read straight, honest history about these events.
The book is here:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperback-book/nelson-barbour-the-millenniums-forgotten-prophet/7645313
The author's Watchtower History site is here:
http://truthhistory.blogspot.com/
I can't recommend the book enough. I've followed the blog almost since that start. The Watchower should be this open with its history. Their attempt to hide their past runs contrary to Bible practice.
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Old Goat
Did I write it? No, but I wish I had. You should get it anyway.
Preview bits on the authors' blog: Truthhistory.blogspot.com
Best bit of Watchtower history I've seen.
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Baptised and on this or other apostate sites - DF'ing Offense???
by cognac injust wondering if you can be in a jc for being on apostate sites.
i'm not talking about if you clicked on something by mistake.
does it say it in the elders book?.
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Old Goat
Yes, and you'll burn in hell too. oops, I forgot. there isn't a real hell-fire, is there?
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Old Goat
Well of course I was. Every time the Watchtower Study Conductor picked his nose on stage, I pointed it out to the Congregation Servant. (I'm not making this up.) It did absolutely no good -- probably because the Congregation Servant was the Watchtower Study Conductor. I tried to be a good ministerial servant and pointed out the Nehru Jacket on the young man giving talk two. That didn't work either, and I was cured. [Point 1: Yes I am old. I'm old enough to remember Company Servants and Servants to the Brethren. Point 2: Both true stories of Watchtower silliness.]
Aside from being cured, I manage to go through life oblivious. I never saw anyone smoking. I was never there to see fornication. I'm sure that's a good thing, maybe. And I didn't see Sister James kissing Brother Rolf in the cloak room, but I surely heard about it. (That one i made up.) My experience as a Congregation Servant and later as an elder was that people would report anything and everything, even if it did not amount to anything beyond bad manners. There was the great baby shower scandal brought to us by Sister Nose-outa-joint. They played a "naughty" game. The game was naughty in name only, a bit like Theocratic Truth or Dare. Every baby or wedding shower upset this sister. Upset didn't keep her from going. My God the woman had issues. She finally got so mad at everyone she just left. Now she's out there terrorizing some rather largish city by calling 911 and reporting jay-walking. [Made the jay-walking thing up, but it's entirely possible, knowing her.]
There was the great 'she plays with herself' scandal. Gossip is awful. It was like a teacher's report gone wrong. You know the one? Teacher writes: "She plays well with others." Ten tells later it becomes, "She plays with others [insert favorite euphemism here.] Then there was the hugely upsetting Birthday Cake scandal. Brother I'm Clueless ate a piece of day old birthday cake at work. Sister I'm-new-and-everything-offends-me saw him. Yes! YES! The man is a hypocrite. Let's remove him as an elder! [Actually, I just called him on the phone and told him to cough up the cake and give it back.]
I found it interesting that proportionately more serious problems came to the congregation's "judicial notice" from the servant body than from anyone else. I don't know if one can extrapolate that experience organizationally, but it is my experience. Probably we just managed to recommend a long string of unstable and unsuitable Watchtowerites. You want the dirty list, don't you! I knew you did.
1. Circuit Servant 1. A drunk.
2. Circuit Servant 2. Ditto, and there was that matter of the very unusual sex.
3. Congregation Servant. Embezzlement.
4. Assistant Congregation Servant. Theft, wife abuse, incest.
5. Assistant Congregation Servant. Drunk as a skunk and twice as smelly ... And we're just up to 1967. Dang it! I'm not typing all of this out. I'm just not.
Probably you’re all tired as heck of me telling you to buy this book, but you SHOULD. It's scholarly. It's important. Give it thought and you will see where many of the icky stuff Watchtowerites still practices originates:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperback-book/nelson-barbour-the-millenniums-forgotten-prophet/7645313
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The WTS and it's members inability to face it's past/history, funny?
by jookbeard ina recent little debate with a couple of recent posters on here i was accused of constantly referring to the past / history of the wts, even to the extent of it being of little importance to them because of the advancement that the wts has made up until this present day , and that they made mistakes, so did the apostles, and we humbly admitted these mistake's etc, the thing is i love studying the history of the wts, it's failed prophecies/blatant lies/flip flop in doctrine, the outright crazy claims, the organ transplant ban, the persecution of their own brothers in malawi, there help for their brothers in mexico, yet at virtually the same time condemning those brothers to murder/rape/kidnap/false imprisonment etc, so folks, you will be seeing a lot more examples of wts history, i'll keep it coming, because the final conclusion will be that the wts is not the channel that jerkhobah uses on earth, and it truly is an apostate!.
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Old Goat
When reading the new book on Nelson Barbour and his relationship to Russell I was struck by two things. The authors politely say that an unnamed Witness historian tried to stop the book from seeing print because he thought it would show the watchtower religion to be less than divine. They quote from Hebert Stroup's rather disorganized book from the 1940's. Stroup's comment was:
“There is no unified historical record of the movement and on the whole the present-day followers are totally ignorant that the group has a history. The majority of those whom I questioned did not even know the year of its founding. Many Witnesses would like to assume that the organization, being inspired of God, never had an earthly beginning. Some actually told me that it dated back to a period before the creation of the world. Others said that the problem of the organization’s history was trivial beside such a monumental task as that in which they are now engaged.”
Being totally ancient, I remember how excited I was when The Watchtower published a series of history articles back in 1955. The excitement diminished when I tried to follow up on some of what was written. The Watchtower organization is only interested in using "history" to promote its view of itself as God's modern-day mouth piece. As disappointing as those articles were back in 1955, the piqued my interest.
Of course the Watchtower isn't alone in fearing its own history, but it makes no sense to hide what others can find. I noted that the authors of the book editorialize about that over on their blog. I wonder if they're getting fed up with resistance from their own people.
Both the book and the author blog are well worth reading. They have just put up bits of research on Russell's early Adventist contacts. I’m pleased that they produce the sources for their research, something the Watchtower’s Proclaimers book fails to do.
The blog is here: truthhistory.blogspot.com
The book is here:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperback-book/nelson-barbour-the-millenniums-forgotten-prophet/7645313
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New Book on Witness History
by Old Goat ini've been following the truthhistory.blogspot.com watchtower history blog almost since it was started.
it's probably the only authoritative web site dealing with early watch tower history.
the blog owner has just published a history of nelson barbour, one of russell's first associates.
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Old Goat
I've been following the TruthHistory.blogspot.com Watchtower History blog almost since it was started. It's probably the only authoritative web site dealing with early Watch Tower history. The blog owner has just published a history of Nelson Barbour, one of Russell's first associates. It's an eye opener. I am amazed at the detail and fresh presentation of the facts. There are things in his book you will never seen in a Watchtower publication!
You can read extracts of it on his blog, or you can buy it here:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperback-book/nelson-barbour-the-millenniums-forgotten-prophet/7645313
I can't recommend this book strongly enough. Check out the blog. Go to the publisher's website (the link above) and read more. Buy it! God this is good!
Goat
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Attention Book Lovers!!!!!!!
by whyamihere inok, i am on my 8th book this month - not too bad for this mommy.
anyway, i've gotten back to my previous life of indulging myself into books that you can't put down.
little children by tom perrotta.. excellently portrayed 2 unhappily married suburbans who's repetitive wrong choices impact a their dull lives, yet alter your own moral thinking of them being heroic in their quest to find happiness with a self imprisoned/trapped marriage they each lead.
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Old Goat
Lately I've been reading a lot of SciFi and Fantasy. I think it's a return to my childhood!
Any thing by David Eddings entertains me. I enjoy the Artemis Fowl books, even if they are for young adults.
A book that seems to be over looked because it's an ebook is Rachael de Vienne's Pixie Warrior. It's available on the Drollerie Press web site. I understand it comes out in paper later this year. It's a fun fantasy about a Pixie, her human husband, and their child. The child is born flying and talking, is a real handfull, and ends up saving the worlds of humans and pixies. I'd give this to my teen age granddaughter, but her JW mom would have a fit, i'm sure.
I especially liked the baby pixie in the story because she reminded me of my own first child. If you buy it as an ebook, i found readerwise.com the best way to do it. Select the pdf format. I liked it so much that I will buy it as paperback when it comes out. I was led to it by a review on a book site that described it as "the best world building since Tolkein." If that isn't true, it's close.
I also like Oz books, which are still in print.
I'm not sure if they still print any Carter Dickson novels, but I occasionally reread those I bought when much, much younger than I am now. And I still enjoy P. G. Wodehouse books. He's mostly forgotten, and that's a shame. Crime Wave at Blandings Castle is a hoot! Mary Roberts Reinhart is still worth reading, particularly her Nurse Pinkertons stories. enjoy!